In answer to Thibault

I'm sorry, I had to make another thread as the last was closed before I could reply to you.

My points:

1) Why was my thread was removed?

You replied:

1) Read the huge red box displayed in the forum thread creation page.

I did nothing that infringes what is shown in the box. I did not report a cheat. Rather, I reported that you guys were showing their games.

2) Why were two cheats able to play on lichess tv?

You said:

2) We can't catch cheaters before they even start cheating. So first, they play, then we catch them.

This is nonsense. In this case I only knew they were cheats WHILE THEY WERE PLAYING because I checked their profiles. So you had already marked them before they played.

3) Why does one now have to go onto a profile in order to see that someone uses engines?

You replied:

3) Because it's not displayed in the mouseover popup anymore. It probably should, tho.

I agree. It should.

4) Why cheats don't seem to have their scores reset anymore?

You said:

4) It's useless. Knowing the score is fake is enough.

You are wrong. You are a great chess-hoster but a poor psychiatrist! The point is, cheaters LIKE high scores. Perhaps they should not have their score reset, as before, because this could potentially INCREASE their score :) but maybe their chart and score should simply not be shown. THAT is a deterrent. In order to beat cheats, you have to think about WHY they cheat. It is really a form of psychopathy when done in public. The person wishes to persuade him or herself that they really are clever, outwitting everyone. Taking away their scores completely will defeat that.

One problem at lichess is that people in charge seem to take a criticism as a personal attack when this is not the case. I wish to see lichess be as successful as possible, so do most other users. So it makes me sad when I see threads closed or removed because something is pointed out that was wrong. Please, be aware that everyone appreciates your fine work, and that of Clarkey and the rest of the team. Sometimes, for whatever reason, you get things wrong - we all do. In this case, lichess tv showed two cheats playing several games and it shouldn't have.

From an outside perspective - you are blowing this way out of proportion. I read the last post, and I couldn't agree more with Thibault.

Also - I noticed a 'cheater' bumping his score to achieve an unrealistic rating. I used the correct form to report him and he was removed in 24hrs.

Blown out of proportion, maybe...

But does he bring up some potentially relevant points? Yes, I think so.

If we truly want to deter cheating on this site, I think we must understand the psychology of the cheaters. They want to impress with their high scores or even become popular players (we had a Lichess "star" recently found to be cheating, for instance). If we want to deter cheating, there should be deterrents in place!

1) Cheaters should be marked, not only on their main profile, but also on the pop-up so that players can easily see they are cheaters.

2) Players marked as cheaters should not be allowed to play rated games, period. They should be forced to play only casual games. They should be treated as an engine.

3) Players marked as cheaters should have their rating set to null. Not 1500, but 0. Rating should be null. This should also result in number 4...

4) Players marked as cheaters should never have games show up on Lichess TV. This way they gain nothing from cheating.

I really don't know why the first 3 deterrents aren't simply an inherent code in the flag that occurs when a mod marks a player as an engine user. If the first 3 things occurred, I am fairly certain number 4 would automatically happen as well. Such deterrents would make it difficult for anyone to see a benefit from using an engine in rated play...they would effectively have their account limited to anonymous status with the added kick that they would be publicly known as a cheater, and see quickly that it isn't worth the hassle of creating multiple cheating accounts every time they are caught.

Would such measured completely eliminate cheaters? Of course not, this is the internet. But I think it would substantially reduce the number of cheaters we see on the site...

LosingHappens, you probably didn't see the original thread. This is the third. The first was removed, the second closed before I could respond.

The reason given for the initial thread's removal was simply wrong - I didn't "report" a cheater. The two players were already marked as cheaters. I simply don't think it is right for two known cheats to have their games on lichess tv.

Also, I don't know what "bumping" one's score is.

In response... oh yeah, I don't care.

Why don't we just mark users that have multiple accounts?
Then, other players could decide for themselves whether they want to play with them or not.

Or, set a limit on how many accounts you are allowed?
I can't see why anyone needs more than three, tops.

I have difficulty believing the legitimate 1800+ players have the time or inclination to artificially manipulate their ratings.
But, I can honestly see where players might need a second account (i.e. the different screen name) in order to procure more opponents, who might very well be avoiding playing certain players (for whatever reasons).

I can also see a desire to possibly maintain separate "casual" and "rated" accounts (i.e. screen names), so that you're relegated to playing anonymous opponents when you, say, want to try some new moves/openings/strategies without having it affect your ratings. Why? Because you have no idea what level opponent you are playing when they are anonymous.
Plus, named members seem to behave better on the whole.

I've only been here six weeks, so what do I know :)

Apparently not enough to realize that you revived a 3-month dead topic with something completely unrelated to it.