Forum violations of ToS: Moderation and response time.

@pawnedge I won't provide too many examples.
Since I don't wanna publicly shame those which comments, I deem extreme or bigot.
And I don't think I will bother reporting anymore, because I don't see the use of it.
My post isn't really meant as a debate, but rather a feedback to Lichess.
I will give you one example however, because this is the pending issue I have.

Some of the pictures in this link, are in violation with several European laws, Geneva convention (III), article 13, as well as Lichess own ToS.
Specifically pictures in #2 and #6.
lichess.org/forum/off-topic-discussion/some-ground-photo

What's wrong with the pictures? What laws do you mean?

There are a line for images somewhere, but I don't see how either 2 or 6 breaks a rule. In fact, the images can probably be found all be found all over the internet's various news sources, forums and other platforms. (partly evident by #2 even giving a source)

Putting aside the specific examples for a moment,

When it comes to embeded imgur images, imgur is pretty good at moderating images. So lichess very rarely have to moderate anything on that front. So, the forum etiquette* has never had or needed a section about what images are appropriate. So it sounds to me, like you want to propose some rules about what images should be allowed in the forum? Or maybe /spoiler thing for images. (I want a spoiler markdown anyway, for stuff like puzzles. But off-topic)

If that's the case, then what image policy would you suggest?

lichess.org/page/forum-etiquette

@Alex_1987 said in #3:
> Russia indeed started the war and is currently trying to invade Ukraine. Russians absolutely support this war. Why do you think that it is discriminating to treat russia and russians as aggressor?

Don't forget that some of the people who have dealt with Russians have even been banned from their Lichess account or even suffered legal proceedings, the Ukraine / Russia war must indeed remain undiscussed

@chakmatus said in #13:
> Don't forget that some of the people who have dealt with Russians have even been banned from their Lichess account or even suffered legal proceedings, the Ukraine / Russia war must indeed remain undiscussed

What are you talking about? Who have been banned?

@Alex_1987 said in #14:
> What are you talking about? Who have been banned?

bruh let it go pls

TBest said in #12:
> What's wrong with the pictures? What laws do you mean?
Nothings wrong, until you realise, that those pictures are of prisoners of war, highly doubtful they have given consent to the publishing of those pictures. One of which (3th picture in #6, even shows an injured soldier)
They are PoW, so even if they had consented, it is under duress and thus an invalid argument.

Law violations:
Geneva Convention (III) relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War; Act 13; Humane Treatment of prisoners:
"Likewise, prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity."

Commentary of 2020; part D §2.4.1624:
"Being exposed to ‘public curiosity’ as a prisoner of war, even when such exposure is not accompanied by insulting remarks or actions, is humiliating in itself and therefore specifically prohibited."

Source: ihl-databases.icrc.org/applic/ihl/ihl.nsf/Treaty.xsp?action=openDocument&documentId=77CB9983BE01D004C12563CD002D6B3E

The images also violate the EU GDPR law.
Those pictures shows emotional and physical state of the subject, they are easily identified by friends and family, and are shared, in a EU based forum without consent of the people in the pictures.
Bed time reading: gdpr-info.eu
(GDPR really is a dry and boring legal scripture, I don't have time to search for the specific § violation, but they are in there, hopefully my argument earlier wouldn't require additional legal clarification)

> ...I don't see how either 2 or 6 breaks a rule. In fact, the images can probably be found all be found all over the internet's various news sources, forums and other platforms. (partly evident by #2 even giving a source)
You won't find these images, in an uncensored state, in any EU based newspaper or media outlet. The source is an Ukrainian government informational/news site (I assume, I don't read Ukrainian)

> If that's the case, then what image policy would you suggest?
Legally Lichess has to follow current French and EU laws. I don't see a reason to make an extra policy beyond those laws, I do however wish to see them enforced in the forum.

@TBest Could you or another moderator share Lichess thoughts regarding #16? I didn't ping you before, because I hoped it wouldn't be necessary, however I forgot how fast threads move out of sight.

In the link in #11, I would also add picture #50 and #53. (So picture #2, the 3rd picture in #6, #50, #53 all shows PoW, and they are easily recognised)
The picture in 53 is a group photo, if the picture had been taken slightly further away, so that their faces ain't clearly identifiable, it would have been okay, but alas it is not.

Hello,

This is not Lichess' stance but just my opinion. Shouldn't issues raised by #16 be handled by the image provider?

#18
You mean the Ukrainian Government and/or the media outlet?
Why would they raise an issue about this?
They are the one who published the pictures in the first place!

I raise this issue partly to inform Lichess, that there are pictures in circulation on this platform, that breaks the Geneva Convention Treaty.
But also because, I find it amoral to show pictures of PoW, regardless of their nation of origin.
Both for the prisoner sake, but also for their family.

Here is an article about from 2022, regarding this:
www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6377305
Here is an article from 2003, regarding a similar situation:
www.swissinfo.ch/eng/icrc-says-pow-images-breach-geneva-convention/3231184

My personal thoughts on this topic would be that:

I recognise these concerns and thoughts are coming from a good place, but I think there are a few reasons which make it impractical or very difficult for Lichess mods to interpret and implement the Geneva Convention on comments.

Lichess isn't a signatory to the Geneva Convention - it only applies to states and "detaining authorities" (might be wrong on that second phrase, can't remember it exactly).

Whether photos of POWs actually does fall under "public curiosity" as per the Geneva Convention is contentious, e.g., also from 2003: www.theguardian.com/media/2003/mar/28/broadcasting.Iraqandthemedia2

As far as I know, there hasn't been an ICC case on this specific topic (excluding photography like Abu Ghraib), but others may be more knowledgeable here, I only did a skim.

I'm not sure how reasonable it is to expect the Lichess moderators to have to begin interpreting the Geneva Convention (which Lichess isn't even a party to) to do their work; the normal forum etiquette and community guidelines are what should guide here. For example, a body of a dead soldier doesn't breach the Geneva Convention - but it'd certainly breach Lichess mod rules.

Lichess also isn't hosting the image, so it is probably better to try and convince the image provider (like imgur) on this point, as they already have the resources in place to determine this stuff.

As to GDPR, those rights only apply (globally) to EU citizens. The photos are of Ukrainian (if separatist) and Russian soldiers. It's against the Ukrainian and Russian constitutions to hold dual-nationality, so they are likely not EU citizens. So it's very unlikely GDPR applies here, but if they do illegally hold dual-nationality, they can contact Lichess to have the personal information removed.