Is KB still banned?

Just to clarify, I wasn't asking if I could use it. I noticed a couple of players using it against me and wondered if they were allowed again. (I haven't played much bullet over the past few months). I can't even be bothered reporting because they were only casual games. Just wondered what the rules are now.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ5MntQeegg

For those who don't know what it is. This is the evil that ruined Bullet.

The answer is to make premoves count as 0.5 seconds instead of >0.01, 0.01, 0.01. But no one listens.

It's sad because the issue is real. But because lichess banned it and said they have measures, people just point and say ur just slow. Until lichess deals with this issue, a massive percent of people will continue to use it. I don't know the percentage but I wouldn't be surprised if it was more than 3 percent. In fact because of the lack of transparency here it could be as high as 30 percent (although that number is a gross exaggeration it's just to make a point)

What do you mean by "lack of transparency"? That cheaters don't disclose their cheat tools? That's a hard one to solve.

@mcgoves said in #13:
> What do you mean by "lack of transparency"? That cheaters don't disclose their cheat tools? That's a hard one to solve.

1. Lack of transparency in regards to the obvious issue.
2. Lack of transparency in how people cheat in bullet. Sure you don't need to show the method, but the lack of discussing what they look for causes serious issues in whether or not there is any real detection.

@DABO5000 said in #14:
> 2. Lack of transparency in how people cheat in bullet. Sure you don't need to show the method, but the lack of discussing what they look for causes serious issues in whether or not there is any real detection.
Lichess should add an additional drop down menu in the profile page where everyone is required to select what kind of cheating he will use.

Its sad that the stereotypical re@sheckley666 said in #15:
> Lichess should add an additional drop down menu in the profile page where everyone is required to select what kind of cheating he will use.

Clearly I didn't make myself clear on what I meant by transparency.

1. Acknowledge the issue. Lichess has ignored the blatant issues whether it is lag comp or KB abuse. The detection they utilize is based on engine use. Not all people that cheat in fast time controls cheat by using an engine. Or by that manner, make the best "engine moves" when cheating. So you can have the greatest cheat detection based on the strongest engines, a lot of resources ect. You will not catch any cheaters because that is not how they cheat.

2. Display methods that are utilized to detect this type of cheating. That does not mean "this is how they cheat". Even a vague statement like, we look at consistency of input. The outlier speed in scrambles for example. There are many relatively easy ways to detect this actually. But what do I know.

I understand that lichess has a tough time dealing with cheating in general. But these are few things that I noticed should be dealt with.

@DABO5000 said in #12:
> I don't know the percentage but I wouldn't be surprised if it was more than 3 percent. In fact because of the lack of transparency here it could be as high as 30 percent (although that number is a gross exaggeration it's just to make a point)

the original kb script does not work anymore. if 3 percent or even more than that are using a working script, surely you can share that script with us? and if not, how come thousands of players have access to a working script, but you have not?

this is why i think even 3 percent is a gross exaggeration: when a working script comes to the attention of the lichess devs, they break it. so nobody who wants to keep using it can share it publicly or even semi-publicly. and it's very difficult to get something to be widely used if you're not able to share it efficiently.

@glbert said in #17:
> the original kb script does not work anymore. if 3 percent or even more than that are using a working script, surely you can share that script with us? and if not, how come thousands of players have access to a working script, but you have not?
>
> this is why i think even 3 percent is a gross exaggeration: when a working script comes to the attention of the lichess devs, they break it. so nobody who wants to keep using it can share it publicly or even semi-publicly. and it's very difficult to get something to be widely used if you're not able to share it efficiently.

Hmmmm my statement is incorrect because it is based on my experience. And the fact that I play only above my rating atm. What is 30 percent of the top 1.5 percent? It would be just under .5 percent. It would be .45 %. Considering the majority of cheating occurs at my level and above. I think my estimate of 3 percent is extremely low. Thank you for helping me focus on the seriousness of the issue.

@DABO5000 said in #18:
> What is 30 percent of the top 1.5 percent? It would be just under .5 percent. It would be .45 %. Considering the majority of cheating occurs at my level and above. I think my estimate of 3 percent is extremely low. Thank you for helping me focus on the seriousness of the issue.

the top 1.5 percent is still several thousand players in bullet. your rank is 5600. 3% of 5600 is about 170 people. how do you circulate a script amongst 170 people without doing so publicly? and it has to be more than that even, because surely you do not imply that it would be used only amongst the top 1.5 percent.

and, considering you ignored my question for a working script, it's probably fair to assume that you do not know of any such script?

@glbert said in #19:
> the top 1.5 percent is still several thousand players in bullet. your rank is 5600. 3% of 5600 is about 170 people. how do you circulate a script amongst 170 people without doing so publicly? and it has to be more than that even, because surely you do not imply that it would be used only amongst the top 1.5 percent.
>
> and, considering you ignored my question for a working script, you do not know of any such script

1. YOU DON'T NEED A SCRIPT. There are ways to auto click ect VIA DOWNLOAD to autoclick for everything, google it. Just being able to hold a piece quickly and blitz around the board during a time scramble is an unfair adv. Some mouses even come with it. This took me with my limited knowledge of computers what like 5 seconds to think of. You think people that are cheating are not taking a much longer time to think it through

2. Only a person with limited faculties would willingly share a script that they made. And if they made a script I highly doubt they are with limited faculties.

3. Mathematically my numbers are supported. Chess.com says .3 percent of users are cheating. And lets be honest here. Lichess is great, but they will never with the limited resources they have, out detect chess.com. It is unfortunate. But I digress. Most of them are going to be cheating at higher levels. But I would imagine not too high so they don't get caught.

The main problem with what I know from what lichess lets us know (which is very little), is that a strong engine is used to detect cheating. Most bullet cheaters are not cheating with the best moves. So how in the world are you gonna detect cheating when the moves are not good? Looking at whether or not someone has a browser inbedded script/ extension. You think cheaters do not know that they would be detected?

The main way of cheating for bullet and ultra bullet is to find a way to input faster or to lag switch. In particular during the end of the game.

In my opinion the main way it would be done is by utilizing a mouse that has a button that autoclicks. Just google it most mouses nowadays have extra buttons on them. Is this allowed? Notice the grey area. Is that considered cheating? According to lichess fairplay It wouldnt be. And there lies the issue.